Min - Parks and Recreation Board - 1998 - 02/09 - RegularMINUTES
PARKS AND RECREATION BOARD
REGULAR CALLED MEETING
FEBRUARY 9, 1998 - 7:30 P.M.
PARB MEMBERS PRESENT
Mark Stout, Chairman
Anne Campbell, Secretary
Laurelle Zamparelli
Kevin Pierce
Chert Jones
MEMBERS ABSENT
Mike Rippe, Vice -Chairman
Dan Turner
GUESTS PRESENT
Jim Waldbauer, Allen Heritage Guild
Warren Johnson, Collin County Historical Society
Kent Kelly, President, Allen Heritage Guild
Tom Lunsford, President, Allen Sports Association (ASA)
Tonya Lunsford, Allen Sports Association
Alan Western, Girls Softball
Ellie Western, Girls Softball
Daniel Lafevere
STAFF PRESENT
Don Horton, Director of Parks and Recreation
Sue Witkowski, Secretary
Tim Deader, Park Superintendent
Larry Kirk, Athletic/Aquatic Programs Supervisor
Sandy McGowan, Recreation Superintendent
Phil Lozano, Parks Supervisor
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Parks and Recreation Board Meeting
February 9, 1998
I. CALL TO ORDER
Chairman, Mark Stout called the meeting to order at 7:34 p.m.
H. CITIZEN COMMENTS
There were no citizens wishing to speak at this time
III. APPROVE MINUTES FROM JANUARY 12, 1997, REGULAR
CALLED MEETING
MOTION: Laurelle Zamparelli moved to accept the Minutes as
presented, Anne Campbell seconded, and the Motion carried, 5 for, 0
against.
Chairman Mark Stout asked that Item VIII Field Use Policy be moved up on the
agenda and open discussion on that item next. No Motion was made to reorganize the
Agenda.
VIII. FIELD USE POLICY
Chairman Mark Stout began by presenting the Board and guests a copy
of his statement (copies of all statements are attached to these minutes)
on the field allocations as they pertain to the ASA baseball and softball
programs. Mark felt these allocations were not fair and that the numbers
of players participating were not accurately reported. Mark felt field
allocations could have been more fairly made if the boys baseball
program had shortened their games and reduced the numbers of games
being played in their season. Mark indicated he had spoken to Lonnie
Thomas, City Councilmember regarding this issue.
Mark also provided the Board with a statement regarding his position on
the Allen High School Softball Team and their usage of Allen Station
Park. Mark said that if the girls could not practice on their game field,
then they did not want to play in Allen Station Park.
Don Horton, Director of Parks and Recreation, reported that he too had
spoken to Councilmember Lonnie Thomas and told him that games could
not be played at Allen Station Park until the contractor is off the site.
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Parks and Recreation Board Meeting
February 9, 1998
His liability insurance carrier could not allow the playing of games while
he is still working on the facility Don assured Mark that Tim Dentler
and Larry Kirk would be meeting with the AISD Girls Softball Coach,
Susan Elza
Mark indicated that he felt the real issue was the disallowing of practices
at Allen Station Park. Don assured him he would work with Coach Elza
regarding field usage, and strive for a good relationship with AISD
regarding joint facilities
Alan Western spoke to the board and indicated his concern that the girls
softball teams had no place to practice since removed from Ford. It was
noted that the girls have not been removed from Ford Fields
Don Horton suggested that Mr Tim Dentler make a presentation at the
next Parks and Recreation Board meeting that might help make the Board
make their decision regarding practices at Allen Station Park Don
reported that staff had photographed fields at various metroplex athletic
facilities, as well as surveyed cities regarding their practice fields versus
game fields.
Mr Tom Lunsford, President, ASA spoke briefly to the Board outlining
the practice facilities available, and how those had been allocated. Tom
reported that the City had met with ASA this past week, and everyone in
attendance was very comfortable with the allocations, including the Girls
Softball Commissioner.
The use of tobacco products at athletic facilities was also discussed, and
Don Horton reported that the only city he had been able to locate with a
specific ordinance against smoking at athletic facilities except in
designated areas was North Richland Hills. Their newly passed
Ordinance allows smoking in the parking lots only
Following a brief discussion on this issue, Anne Campbell suggested it
might be a good idea to place signage in the parks requesting patrons
cooperation by smoking in designated areas only. Don Horton also
suggested that the smoking issue could be removed from the Field Use
Policy and brought to the Board under a separate ordinance
Cheri Jones suggested that any place in the policy which called for
insurance coverage, that a 30 day cancellation notice endorsement be
required by the City
�j Following a lengthy discussion on the Field Use Policy,
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Parks and Recreation Board Meeting
February 9, 1998
MOTION: Anne Campbell moved to Table the Field Use Policy until
the next regular Parks and Recreation Board Meeting at
which time a presentation will be prepared by staff
regarding metroplex facilities. Kevin Pierce seconded,
and the Motion carried, 5 for, 0 against.
IV. SUBCOMMITTEE REPORTS
Council/Board Liaison
Mark Stout indicated there was nothing to report since the last meeting.
Capital Improvements/Long Range Planning
Don Horton reported that he had met with Mike Rippe and Mark Stout
regarding the updates to the City Comprehensive Plan. Don reported
that the staff in the Community Development Department would be
reviewing this chapter, and that the entire document would be open to
public review prior to going to the Planning and Zoning Commission for
approval.
Fund Raising/Sponsorship
Larry Kirk reported that he had met with Dan Turner and that different
strategies were proposed for sponsorship, in particular the Allen USA
Celebration, as well as long-range goals. Also discussed were the
possible new ways to use the amphitheater at Allen Station Park.
Programming Athletic/Aquatics
Anne Campbell indicated she had nothing to report at this time. Don
Horton indicated that 5 proposals had been received in response to the
Joint AISD/City Request for Qualifications. He indicated those would
be available in his office for review by any interested Board members.
V. CONCESSIONS REQUEST FOR PROPOSAL BID PROCESS
Larry Kirk provided a brief background on the concession proposal, and
referenced the agenda packet for a complete document. Larry indicated
that the City could either accept a proposal from ASA, or go out for
competitive bids, in which case the bids would be compared on a strictly
financial basis.
Mr Tom Lunsford spoke briefly and indicated that ASA wanted to
continue to provide concessions. He felt that this was a service to the
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Parks and Recreation Board Meeting
February 9, 1998
community and parents of participants by not charging inflated prices for
i products and services. He assured the Board they would provide
�1 services for any and all tournaments put on by the City as well as
continue to provide concessions at Ford Park during adult athletic
events.
Larry Kirk reported that prior to this past year, it had been a concern for
the City that not all the adult games were having concessions provided.
Larry indicated that this past year had not been a problem and that ASA
had done a very good lob of providing concessions at all times.
Following a brief discussion on the possibility of the City bidding on this
issue, it was decided that if a proposal from ASA did not get staff
approval, then the City should go out for competitive bids. Mr
Lunsford assured the Board that if the City went out for bids, then ASA
would not bid on the concessions. He felt like they could not be
competitive with outside firms wanting to make a higher margin of
profit. Don reminded the Board that the proposal from ASA would need
to be put on the next Parks and Recreation Board agenda in order to have
concessions available at the opening of Allen Station Park. Based on the
timing of the proposal, it was suggested that the Fund
Raising/Sponsorship Subcommittee would review the proposal and if it
f�yl met with staff approval, be approved without returning to the Board.
MOTION: Laurette Zamparelli moved to accept a proposal from
ASA for the handling of concessions at Allen Station Park
according to the guidelines provided in the proposal,
pending staff and subcommittee approval. Anne Campbell
seconded, and the Motion carried 5 for, 0 against.
VI. DISCUSS PARKS AND RECREATION DEPARTMENT LOGO
DEVELOPMENT
Larry Kirk brought forward proposals submitted by Mr Randy Bridges
for Parks and Recreation Department logos. Mark Stout questioned the
idea of the Department having a separate logo from the City of Allen.
Don Horton indicated the Department was striving for an identifying
icon that could be used for signage, business cards, and all aspects of the
department operations. Laurette Zamparelli suggested that the
Department should try to incorporate the City of Allen Logo and
manipulate it to represent the Parks Department.
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Parks and Recreation Board Meeting
February 9, 1998
L VII. ALLEN STATION PARK - PROPOSAL FOR HISTORIC DAM
SITE
Jim Waldbauer, representing the Allen Heritage Guild, thanked the
Board for the opportunity to speak to them, and made a brief
presentation to the Board regarding tee Historical Dam Site and the
improvements the Heritage Guild wants provide for this site. Jim
introduced Mr Kent Kelly, President of the Allen Heritage Guild, and
Mr Kelly gave a brief background on the Guild and its beginnings with
Leadership Allen, Class VII, along with the approval for non-profit
status.
Mr. Waldbauer presented a brief video done by Steve Stohler, Channel 4
News in which a brief history of the project was presented.
Mr Kelly explained that the guild wants to place a monument to tell the
story of the historical site. Mr Kelly assured the Board that he was not
asking for funding for the project, only the support of the Board.
MOTION: Kevin Pierce made a motion to approve the proposal as
presented to improve the Historical Dam Project, Cheri
Jones seconded and the Motion carried 5 for, 0 against.
IX. REQUEST BY BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA, CIRCLE 10
COUNCIL TO UTILIZE BETHANY LAKES PARK FOR
OVERNIGHT LEADERSHIP TRAINING
Don Horton gave a brief history of the Scouts usage of Bethany Lakes
Park and indicated the only thing different this year from previous years
was the increased occupied residential areas adjacent to the facility
MOTION: Kevin Pierce moved to approve the request for this year
Anne Campbell seconded, and the motion carried, 5 for, 0
against.
X. PRESENTATION OF PARK PROJECTS TO CDC BOARD
Based on the Comprehensive Plan, Don Horton reported that he wanted
to take the top two projects to the CDC Board to request acquisition only
funding. Those projects would be a Community Park on the West Side
($2 million), and a Soccer Complex on the east side ($2.5 million).
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Parks and Recreation Board Meeting
February 9, 1998
Don reported that currently he would see no development funding, and
also reported that the east side of Allen is currently selling land at
approximately $25,000 per acre, and the west side seeing $35,000 per
acre. Both of these figures are based on large acre tracts being sold for
development purposes. Don indicated that he would be making his
presentation to the CDC Board on February 16.
XI. OPEN SPACE VIDEO PRESENTATION
Due to the lateness of the hour it was suggested that the above video
presentation be tabled until the next meeting of this Board The Board
agreed that if the video could be checked out that long by the City, they
would look at it at their next meeting.
MOTION: Mark Stout moved to table this item until the next Regular
meeting of the Allen Parks and Recreation Board. Anne
Campbell seconded, and the Motion carried 5 for, 0
against.
XII. ITEMS OF INTEREST
z
ASA wanted it noted that they were requesting to be a part of the grand
opening ceremonies for Allen Station Park. Tim Derider assured them
that they would be contacted regarding a possible Parade of Athletes that
would involve more than just baseball/softball, but all ASA athletics.
Mark Stout indicated he had heard nothing back from staff regarding
follow up to the Mustang Creek homeowners meeting. Don assured him
that staff was within the timelines indicated to these residents at the
Town Hall Meeting, and that they will be in touch with the residents.
Mark Stout questioned the exact date for the opening of Allen Station
Park, and Tim Dentler told him it would still be somewhat dependent
upon the weather although everything was moving along well at that
facility
A brief discussion was held regarding the next Parks and Recreation
Board Meeting, since the scheduled time would fall during the Spring
Break for AISD and some members might not be available. It was
determined that the absent Board members would be polled to verify
i
availability on March 9
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:27
p.m.
These minutes read and approved this 9" day of March, 1998.
-Al
Mark Sto t, Charman Anne Campbell, Secretary
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Parks and Recreation Board Meeting
February 9, 1998
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XIII. ADJOURN
There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned at 10:27
p.m.
These minutes read and approved this 9" day of March, 1998.
-Al
Mark Sto t, Charman Anne Campbell, Secretary
11
I
Attachment A - February 9, 1998 PARE Meeting
Before we get into our field use policy discussion I would like to update the Park Board
on events regarding the usage of Alien station Park by the girls high school softball team.
Going back to the original bond election and the planning of Allen station, it was
understood that this park would serve as the home ballfield of the girls high school team,
this was to be just one of the many cooperative sharing of facilities between school and
city
Discussion between the high school coach and Steve Williams, assistant athletic director
and our Parks & Rec staff has resulted in games being scheduled at Ford Park According
to Coach Williams they were told they could not practice on these fields. Softball coach
Elza told me she did not want to constantly worry about practice and game fields so Ford
Park was the only choice she could make This past week high school softball practices
began. Parents started asking where the games would be played. They assumed it would
be at Allen station Park-- that was the original plan. The players started practicing at Ford
and became aware of the concrete curb that has been installed around the infield fence.
This creates a definite problem for the playing of fast pitch softball — so they too asked
why they couldn't play at Allen Station.
City councilman Lonnie Thomas called me last week after he received a call from a parent
and asked me what was going on I told him staff had informed me that no practices
would be allowed at Allen Station and this included the high school I told Lonnie I did
not agree, I felt this staff ruling was wrong and planned to bring it to the Park Board.
Lonnie did not feel this was a correct ruling and said he would check into the matter He
called me the next day and said the story he was told was it was the school's decision to
not play at Allen station because of the lack of crowds at the game. This, of course, is
incorrect information. On Wednesday Lonnie called and talked to my wife Debbie after he
discussed this matter with city manager John McCarty. As Lonnie explained, he
understood that the fields at Allen Station will be available for complete use by the high
school team --practices and games-- in fact the city would even do something along the
lines of a dedication ceremony There may be a little problem with parking and some final
construction still in the area, but the overall impression was an attitude of cooperation
and assisting the girls' high school team as much as possible. This was not the case in my
discussions with staff 2 weeks ago.
I have talked with quite a few people about this high school softball team matter many
parents planned on attending this Parks Board meeting. After my discussions with Lonnie,
I told them to not worry, trust me, and it would all be taken care of to their satisfaction
The high school players planned on attending the last city council meeting to present their
concerns direct to the council This came direct from the players themselves and was
independent from coaches or parents I was able to talk them into postponing their plans,
since it was understood the girls would have the use of Allen station as soon as possible. I
have stuck my neck out and explained to people that the city will do whatever is best for
the children in Allen My question to staff is What is the attitude and definite plan for the
usage of Allen Station Park by the high school team's
Attachment B - February 9, 1998 PARB Meeting
PARKS AND REC FIELD USAGE POLICY
In our meeting notes, Don recommends that action is required on this item and
staff recommends its approval
I have problems with the field policy as it is written-- and although I took off work
2 hours and met with Ann, Tim, Larry, and Sandy-- I am not satisfied with the changes.
One major change which I mistakenly thought was going to be made was the deletion of
the no practice policy on game fields Although, I agree in the case of soccer that some
type of practice restrictions must sometimes be placed on game fields— I do not think that
it should apply to the ballfield at Allen Station Park I also believe that it does not address
what actual fields will be used as game and practice facilities by ASA and do not feel the
method used by staff for allocating fields by basis of need is properly spelled out. The city
has always done their best to accommodate the youth of Allen and the ASA program. The
introduction paragraph of the Field Use Pokey (Exhibit E item I- A-) correctly states the
purpose of this document in the last eight worths:" meeting the needs of the citizens of
Allen" There is a loss of the direction that this introductory paragraph sets forth when you
allocate fields unfairly, restrict the use of playable fields, and seem more concerned with
setting up guidelines and restrictions rather than ensuring adequate, safe playing fields f rr
our youth.
Last Thursday I attended an ASA softball committee meeting. I was asked if
practices would be allowed at Allen Station fields and they expressed concern over the
loss of a one of the girls' softball fields to boys baseball They asked about attending this
Park board meeting to express their concerns I told them their attendance was
unnecessary, explaining that I understood staff had changed their decision on practices. I
also told them I hoped that boys T -ball could be relocated to another field after
presentation of the player use figures to the staff. I hoped the problem ofthe gtris'
program being treated unfairly and giving up a field would be eliminated. I felt that a
logical, fair decision could be quietly worked out.
The original plan at Allen Station looked at the needs of baseball and softball. I
was in attendance and there was even a question of "Would 4 fields be adequate for girls
softball? Or were more needed ?" I told the committee 3 years ago, and it is true today,
that if the girls program has 4 fields for exclusive use they would be adequately taken care
of for the first time in 10 years. The ASA gals' softball program has made sacrifices for
years, because they had to. These fields were promised to the girls program from the
start Look over the player totals on the sheet I passed out. Little League and the city
base field allocation on number of games played Whatever criteria you use— this is still
taking a field from the girls' program that has been promised to them from the very start of
this project
As chairman I recommend tabling this item— if not tabled then I recommend and
will vote against it, If it passes in its current form, it will not be the last time we will have
to address its contents As a park board member I represent the people of Allen- I feel an
obligation to help provide facilities for our children to play. I deflect criticism orcity
policies and city staff when they sometimes appear unfair to the public-- But I cannot
defend this field use policy
Attachment C - February 9, 1998 PARB Meeting
Baseball # 1 9-10 y.o minors 144 12
Baseball#2 11-12y.o minors 96 8
Baseball # 3 9-10 y.o. majors 168 14
Baseball #4 11-12 y.o. majors 120 t0
Baseball # 5 13 y.o juniors &
14-15 y.o seniors 168 14
320 girl softball players on SB #1 does not equal 144 baseball players on BB #1
268 girl softball players on SB #4 does not equal to 120 baseball players on BB 94
Also putting 364 boys t -ball on girls SB 3 is impossible— there will be overflow to the
girls t -ball field, in effect giving the boys program 11/2 fields on the girls side of the
complex. Mark Stout
I would like to address the inequities of the ASA field allocation presented last Wednesday
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! ,
from the city. I do not feet it is fair to the girls, softball program. Once again the city is
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making the girls program make cutbacks and changes in their program in order to
compensate for the lack of fields provided to ASA for the baseball Spring season ASA
might have seemed to agree with the allocation, but only because they were given na
choir& in order for Little League games to be taken care of. Girls! softball has had to
make adjustments for years because of field shortages. I have discussed this matter
numerous times and stated that Little League could alleviate some of their scheduling
problems by reducing the number of games per team and shortening the lengths of their
games (away from the t hr 45 min.).
Allocating the fields by the number of games or game times is not fair-- baseball
and softball are different sports with different needs. You dolt have to explain to any
parent of a girl that is involved in sports that the boys program always gets priority Title
IX and the courts have leveled the playing field some and perhaps the legal system is the
only way to achieve fairness I just like to feel that a logical and fair allocation of fields
could be worked out — not basing a decision on who complains the most, which group
contacts you first, or is more organized.
Very simply-- according to the city's ASA field allocation proposal — here are the number
of players assigned to each field These also were assigned without figures for girls
softball. If those figures were needed, why were the numbers not included? I could have
gotten those numbers if I had been asked
Field team playing on field Total number of players Total number of
assigned to field teams to this field
{
Softball # 1 SB coaches pitch &
SB 10 & under 320 29
Softball # 2 SB T- Ball program 180 15
Softball # 4 SB 12 & under
SB 14 & under -
SB 16 & under 268 22
Softball # 3 LL tee -ball 364 26
fM4l4!#!#!##4###4444lf4!*!*4444444##4#f#f#Mild!#4MM#f#f#!!#44ftf#!M}44
Baseball # 1 9-10 y.o minors 144 12
Baseball#2 11-12y.o minors 96 8
Baseball # 3 9-10 y.o. majors 168 14
Baseball #4 11-12 y.o. majors 120 t0
Baseball # 5 13 y.o juniors &
14-15 y.o seniors 168 14
320 girl softball players on SB #1 does not equal 144 baseball players on BB #1
268 girl softball players on SB #4 does not equal to 120 baseball players on BB 94
Also putting 364 boys t -ball on girls SB 3 is impossible— there will be overflow to the
girls t -ball field, in effect giving the boys program 11/2 fields on the girls side of the
complex. Mark Stout